Nytt K-motor prosjekt - mulighet for "ny" lav kost motor

[YMK]

Antar at en mix av 1,4 og 1,8 er ett forsøk på turbokonvertering. Mener å ha vært borti det på ett engelskt forum noen år tilbake

[Mr Rover 75]

Antar at en mix av 1,4 og 1,8 er ett forsøk på turbokonvertering. Mener å ha vært borti det på ett engelskt forum noen år tilbake

 

Kanskje en mulighet for alt jeg vet, men jeg betviler dette sterkt i dette tilfellet

 

Her kommer siste oppdatering:

 

Hi all,

 

Not much done on this project lately, but I have decide to move forward with an engine rebuild and do the things progressively when I have the money and time available for the different steps. It don`t seem to end up as a “low cost” project based on the findings. Engine #2 will more or less be trashed. This one was a discgrace and I don`t want to use parts from this one as I don`t know what it has been through. A rebuild will be based on block #1 which will be fitted with new pistons, piston rings, liners, big end bearings and main bearings. A used cylinder head which seems to be useable is already found on Ebay and ordered. This one came from a running -99 Rover 414 engine (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rover-200-214-216-416-25-MG-ZR-cylinder-head-dizzy-distributor-with-cams-/161009867869?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&nma=true&si=%252F3bPBtOD6VSOEKK0Skgf%252Ftryakk%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc ). This cylinder head will be stripped, inspected, skimmed and rebuilt as the first step of this process.

 

Just a tip:

The cylinder heads on the different K-engines are all the same except for the cams fitted and which type of timing belt tensioner that is fitted. A head for a manual tensioner might be drilled and tapped to fit an auto tensioner. The best alternative is to source a good used cylinder head from a rover 25/200/45/400 engine as this one has been subjected to lower loads during its life than the 75/Freelander cylinder heads and the chance is a lot less that this one has been subjected to serious overheating and annealing. At the end, it also seems that the 1.4/1.6 cylinder heads are listed a lot cheaper on Ebay compared to the 1.8 ones.

[Mr Rover 75]

Hi All,

 

The Ebay cylinder head arrived yesterday. I had some time to do some inspection on it last night. Head height was measured to 118,5mm and I guess it has been skimmed twice in its lifetime. The marks in the seal surface show that the latest elastomer gasket was fitted to the head. No severe indentation from the fire rings was found, but porosity seen in the fire ring area. The oil in the cylinder head was pretty dirty to.

The plan is to strip the cylinder head down, lap in the valves, have the fire ring area peened down to compress any porosity below the surface in the fire ring area (http://wiki.seloc.org/a/Cylinder_Head_Fire_Ring_Peening ) and have the head skimmed. I guess the head height will be approx. 118,2-118,3mm after this operation which is 0,5mm below the manufacturers re-face limit. A 0,5mm stainless head saver shim will be added to the seal surface with Stag wellseal at assembly. This saver shim will give the cylinder head an overall head height off 118,7-118,8mm which is within the specifications. It will also seal of surface porosity if present. The Saver shim will spread out the point load from the fire rings over a larger area on the cylinder head surface and prevent fire ring indentation if the cylinder head material for some reason is partly annealed. The latest Payen elastomer gasket will be used.

Updates to come J

Here are some pictures:

[Mr Rover 75]

Ny oppdatering... dette går sakte fremover...

 

Hi All,

 

Not much done on this project the last month due to vacation, family stuff, etc.etc… but are now trying to move slowly forward when there is a free “time slot” now and then J

The pistons and liners from Island 4x4 was received before my vacation. They was delivered in unmarked boxes with no labeling or part numbers engraved in the parts. Look like “nonames”. The items looks OK, So I hope the quality is also… Time will show

The plan now, is to remove the pistons from the block and have the new ones fitted to the old conrods. Some of this was done last evening:

The sump, pickup tube and oil rail was removed from the block. The bolts was put in bags with were labeled:

I marked the bottom of the conrods with tiny punch marks, number one at the timing belt side had one mark. The marks was punched in the front end of the con rod.

Pistons removed from the block:

I noticed that all the conrods had some “discoloring” on the small end due to exposure from heat. I guess this is from the heating of the small end due to assembly at the factory? Or have these pistons been refitted before?? What do you think?

[Mr Rover 75]

Hi All,

Moving forward slightly, pistons removed from the conrods according to Lovel`s excellent procedure (http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=124644 ). A lot of “manhood” was required to drive out the gudgeon pin with a vice, but now they are out J

[Mr Rover 75]

_{Hi All,}

_{Continued yesterday to strip down the block for all external components like brackets, water pump, oil pump etc.. The block is now more or less stripped down except for the crankshaft, which will be removed in the next step. I noticed that the crankshaft endfloat seems to be excessive and did a rough measurement of the crankshaft endfloat with a depth gauge on my caliper. Rough values are 0,6-0,7mm which is far too much… Service limit is 0,35mm. I will inspect the thrust bearings and do a closer inspection on this during removal of the crankshaft….}

_{Any thoughts about this??}

[Mr Rover 75]

Hi All,

I was a little to excited yesterday to find the cause of the excessive crankshaft endfloat and had the bearing ladder removed. I have no history of this engine and have no idea what it has been through, but this project has had some shocking surprises so far, and this finding is also one of them which make me temporarily lose faith in the human kind…… Crankshaft ladder was removed and only one thrust bearing was found…. The other one is missing….. Say no more… LOL

Rear thrust bearing is missing:

And crankshaft has “subbed” against the bearing ladder:

Crankshaft thrustbearing surface looks fine:

An ex-marine engine reconditioner which I work with had a look at the crankshaft and bearing shells this morning and he says the crankshaft looks good. No need to worry about this. He advised me to lightly polish the bearing journals with fine emery paper grade 600-800 (or what it is called..) to remove any bearing material that may have embedded in the journals to avoid old bearing material to rip up the new bearing shells. This was normal practice when overhauling the marine engines. I love advises like that.. J

So the plan now is, cleaning parts and put block together with new bearings J

Some light marks/corrosion at the end of the crankshaft, will be polished away.

[Rune Kleven]

Håper motoren har vært oppe før. For slikt kan da ikke være levert fra fabrikken?

[Mr Rover 75]

Hei, motoren har nok mest sannsylig vært oppe før. Slitasjemerkene på "crank carrier" tyder på at denne ikke har gått mange timene/minuttene uten thrustelageret på plass. Jeg kjøpte delemotorene fra en skikkelig "julenisse" som helst burde vært steinknuser. Alt i alt så er det godt håp for prosjektet likevel da ingen av delene som brukes om igjen har fått "varige men" Stay tuned....

Endret 6. august 2013 av Mr Rover 75

[Mr Rover 75]

Ny oppdatering. Prosjekter skrider sakte fremover i riktig rettning

Hi all,

A little report back after the last evenings activity.

Crankcase and crankshaft was cleaned and made ready for re-assembly.

New main bearings and thrust bearings installed in block and crank ladder:

 

Crankshaft installed in block. Crankshaft endfloat now measured to 0,1mm with feeler gauges.

Hylomar blue added to the block mating face:

Crank ladder installed and bolted down with the recommended torque:

New crankshaft seal installed:

Block put back in the engine stand and a new uprated oil ladder temporary installed. It could be discussed if this was really necessary but since everything is put to pieces, I decided to fit it just for the piece of mind.. J

Liners temporarily fitted to the block without sealant and clamped down with liner retainers. By using the “finger test”, all liners protrude above the block deck. By using a steel ruler and feelers, I could get my 0.0015 blade under the straight edge, but not my 0.002 blade. This is within OEM spec and should be OK.

This far was how I got yesterday. Next step will be to pull the liners and install them with sealant and fixed with liner retainers. Then a piston job will be the nest step…. J

[Ronny Jacobsen]

Imponert over innsatsen så langt

[Mr Rover 75]

Heihei, takker for supporten . Ny oppdatering etter kveldens svipptur innom garasjen...:

Hi all,

A little more progress done in between all other things….

Cylinder block bores and liner ledges cleaned and degreased:

Liners cleaned and degreased:

Hylomar blue applied to liner prior to installation. I applied a 2mm bead if Hylomar to the liner ledge according to the recommendations given in the Haynes manual. Using a syringe to apply the hylomar is pretty helpful. I also applied a “band” of Hylomar below the ledge, spread out with an artist brush:

The liners was then installed into the block. I slightly rotated in the liners the last 2 cm in an attempt to get the “hylomar band” down into the bore instead of “scraped of” by the bore edge. I guess that it does not matter anyway how this is done… Liners was fixed with my retainers..

[Mr Rover 75]

Hi All,

Pistons fitted to the conrods yesterday. No need to say that this was a pretty nerve wrecking process…

Pistons was made ready for fitment and the gudgeon pin was trial fitted and oiled up:

The conrod was placed in a vise, and I heated up the small end using a torch. The temperature was checked with an IR termomether during heat up and I stopped at approx. 300 deg C. The piston was now placed over the conrod and the gudgeon pin pushed in by hand. I guess it takes approx. 0,5 sec before the gudgeon pin settles in the conrod, so I had to work really quick!! It’s a one-go chance. I have to admit that the first one could be pushed a few mm longer inn, but I see that the OEM fitted ones was not 100% centered either. The next 3 was heated slightly more, some above 300 deg as the thermometer went out-of range at 300… These settled at the correct position.

Next step was to install the pistons in the block, but I experienced some oil-ring issues which stopped me for now. I created a separate thread for this: http://www.the75andztclub.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=1398380#post1398380

[Mr Rover 75]

Hi all,

Some helpful websites guided me into the correct way to install the scraper rings. The problem was that the expander ring easily overlapped itself in the groove, making the outer rings stuck and not “compressable”. Taking great care to align everything and make sure the expander was in the correct position before putting the ring compressor on:

New big end bearing fitted:

..And put down into the bore:

All 4 pistons was first installed down they bores with the crankshaft positioned at the TDC for cyl. No 1. This made me able to do all the big end bearing caps without rotating the crankshaft. Liner retainers and oil rail was removed to get access to the bottom of the pistons:

All bearing caps made up with new conrod bolts to the specified torque: 20Nm + 45 deg:

A thin bead of sealant applied to the oil rail oil bores prior to installation:

Uprated oil rail installed:

Liner retainers put back on. I was able to rotate the engine without any problems, but I guess that things will rotate more easily when the cylinder head are put back on. “Temporary engine seizure” due to missingcylinder head + stretch bolts are a known issue, and the engine does not need to rotate freely without these. Crankshaft put in the “safe position”:

The cylinder head would be my next port of call.. J

[Rune Kleven]

Pent! Så jeg får lyst til å finne en overhalingsbar 1.8, og gjøre jobben bare fordi det ser moro ut!

[Mr Rover 75]

Hehe, ja Dette er ganske kjekk kveldskos. Ting er vedlig mye greiere når det kan gjøres under ordnede forhold og uten tidspress. Jeg har ingen bil som akutt venter på denne (enda)... Det eneste negative er vel at det begynner å gå litt for mye penger i prosjektet... men det er jo ikke uvanlig Regner likevel med å komme i mål for ca 6500 Nok`s, og det er jo faktisk mindre enn noen huggere skal ha for brukt motor uten garanti.....

Endret 28. august 2013 av Mr Rover 75

[lafterolf]

Lærerikt med bilder. nesten så man får lyst til å prøve selv også.

Hvorfor skriver du ikke på norsk?

Endret 28. august 2013 av lafterolf

[hacri]

Har du ikke lest fra starten av Rolf! Fy deg ;-). Står forklart der, hvorfor engelsk.....

[Mr Rover 75]

Hi all,

Cylinder head work ongoing, Cam ladder and cams removed:

Valves and tappets removed and organized in cardboard cups, marked with its respective valve no.:

Valve inspection was done. The Inlet valves look good. No 1. Was wet with oil and “gunk” was found on the valve stem, probably due to a leaking valve seal. These will be replaced anyway. All the Inlet valves were lapped in and minor work was needed to clear up the valve seats:

The exhaust valves look worse. A lot more carbon deposits and dirt was found in the exhaust port which needs to be cleaned out, shown here:

One exhaust valve was scraped clean and I tried to lap it in. The valve seat cleaned up quickly and got the clean grey ring. The valve got better, but it has still some marks/pittings after some moderate lapping work. I think some pitting should be OK, but not excessive. How much is “good enough”? Should the vale/valve seat be 100% clean or is some marks/pittings OK?. What do you think about this Exhaust valve? :

[tigergutt]

 

Hmm. Det hadde vært noe for MGFen det

Hva har du gjort for å få ut såpass?

Motor er bygget på bestilling fra meg og sitter in en Triumph Spitfire som veier 755 kg. Artig liten skapning. Den går forøvrig rett inn i MGF, Lotus Elise og FL... Meg vil ha enda mer pulver og går og sikler på en med 250 bhp...

[roy@pumpa.no]

Min erfaring med manuell ventilsliping:

Hadde ventiler/seter som så litt bedre ut enn dette, men hadde litt mye sylinderlekkasje på CYL3 fra eksosventilene (90%).

De andre tre lå på 30-40% som er greit nok.

Ok:

Av med ventilene, fram med pasta og sugekopp.

Brukte en to-tre timer på å slipe ventiler og -seter mot hverandre.

Setter det sammen med litt motorolje mellom ventil og -sete, og smekker toppen på motoren.

Innskytelse før montasje i bilen:

Kanskje greit å kjøre en sylinderlekkasjetest, selv om nå kan det jo bare ha blitt bedre!

90% lekkasje på samtlige, og nettopp: Fra kun de ventilene jeg hadde slipt:; Eksosventilene.

trenger jeg å si at denne toppen ikke ble montert?

Denne må inn til supermann og få slipt ventiler og -seter med skikkelig utstyr, og ikke "donald-slipeutstyr" fra Biltema.

 

Ok, dette var min erfaring og resultatet av en fullstendig bortkastet arbeidsdag og ditt resultat kan jo være helt annerledes.

[Mr Rover 75]

Hei Roy. Jeg har slipt inn ventilene på en håndfull topper opp igjennom og har forsåvidt grei erfaring med dette. I de fleste tilfellene så har en lett slip vært nok til å gi en jevn og grå ring rundt ventilen og ventilsetet. Jeg har aldri tatt noen sylinderlekkasjetest eller vakumtest på disse, men testet med "WD40" metoden som jeg mener er vel så god. Enkelt forklart, tilt toppen slik at ventilene som skal testes ligger vannrett, spray en god dose WD40 inn i porten slik at en får en "innsjø" rundt ventilen. Er ventilen utett, så vil en med en gang se at det lekker ned til undersiden. Denne toppen har nok hatt et værre liv en de andre jeg har brynet meg på. Som bildene viser, så er eksosventilene ikke fine. Ventilsetet blir bra, men ventilene har for mye "pittings" og må slipes ganske mye for å bli bra. Problemet er også det at det er begrenset på hvor mye disse kan slipes før den spesifiserte "Installed valve stem heigth" blir over max verdi. Jeg ser at denne ligger i grenseland etter en lett slip på eksosventilene. Siden setene er såpass bra, har jeg bestemt meg for å prøve nye eksosventiler istedet og forhåpentligvis så passer disse inn etter en lett slip. 8x eksosventiler allerede bestilt

[roy@pumpa.no]

Jeg slipte også ventilene for hånd til det var en fin og grei grå flate på ventil og -sete.

jeg brukte riktignok ikke WD40, men White spirit.

Ble en dam, men lakk litt...

Mulig jeg var veldig uheldig, men det er et paradoks at det ble VERRE etter at jeg slipte.

[Mr Rover 75]

Jeg slipte også ventilene for hånd til det var en fin og grei grå flate på ventil og -sete.

jeg brukte riktignok ikke WD40, men White spirit.

Ble en dam, men lakk litt...

Mulig jeg var veldig uheldig, men det er et paradoks at det ble VERRE etter at jeg slipte.

Rart... Jeg har alltid syntes og ment at dette er en enkel og grei jobb, men det trenger ikke alltid å være slik Bare en tanke på ditt tilfelle --> Jeg vil tro at hvis du har stor slitasje i ventilstyringene slik at ventilen slarker mye sidesveis, vil du få problemer med å få slipt denne inn da den aldri vil sentrere skikkelig??

[YMK]

Mye dårlig ventilslipepasta i omløp kanskje?